Prototype Nutrition Ketoforce

Aug

12

Initial KetoForce (BHB mixed salts) Data

By Patrick Arnold

On my last blog I promised  I would show you some data on my KetoForce product (BHB mixed salts).  I have two sets of data – the first showing blood beta-hydroxybutyrate (BHB) responses and the second showing specific changes in physiological parameters during a controlled exercise experiment.

The blood data was done at a university on a set of subjects and the average changes in BHB levels are what this graph shows

 

bhb graph

 

These subjects drank a diluted version of the KetoForce product that was essentially equivalent to 36mL of KetoForce.*  The product was consumed on an empty stomach and as you can see blood BHB levels rose pretty quickly.  Levels appear to stay decently elevated until round the 180 minute (3 hour) mark.   30-60 minutes seems to be the sweet spot for maximum blood levels, so for pre-exercise use one should probably time the ingestion accordingly.

The exercise data I have was done using a 20% solution of the BHB salts which was equivalent to 40 mL of the  KetoForce product.  The data was done by an independent individual that does such research for a non-profit organization.  Out of respect for this fact – and the fact that the data is only preliminary (more research is going to be performed) – I won’t report the full data here.  I will give a glimpse into the most interesting thing he found though.

First of all this individual was ketoadapted.  Ketoadapated means he had been on a ketogenic diet for a period of time long enough so that he was in full ketosis and had developed a good ability to utilize ketones.  He did a bike exercise that was set up so the workload was maintained at a constant level roughly equal to 60% of his VO2 max.  During the first stage he did the exercise for twenty minutes without the salts, and during the second stage he consumed the salts 60 minutes prior to the exercise bout.

One of the things that was measured was the amount of oxygen consumed during the exercise bouts.  Theoretically, ketones should reduce oxygen consumption because they are known to generate more cellular energy per unit  oxygen burned compared to glucose and other energy sources.  The data he got with the BHB salts strongly suggested that this theory was at work during the experiment.  Below is the difference in oxygen consumption reported as a percentage between a bout without the salts and a bout with the salts.

Last 5 minutes –  minus 8.8%

Last 10 minutes – minus 7.7%

Last 15 minutes – minus 6.6%

Apparently there was a substantial decrease in the amount of oxygen he needed to maintain the workload after taking the salts.  Very interestingly, this decrease in oxygen demand got more prominent as the session went on as well.

BHB salts are natural products that mimic the nutritional state of ketosis and have been studied in the past for medical applications as well.   KetoForce is  the first introduction of these salts to supplement and fitness industry so we are very early on in regards to figuring out how best to use them.  This preliminary data does give us some clues on how they may be used (timing wise) and what benefits they may offer.  We are very hopeful that our collaborations will enable us to generate a lot more research on the product (such as what performance benefits might be seen in non ketoadapted people)  in the very near future.

 

https://www.prototypenutrition.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=KF

 

*  The KetoForce label suggests a serving size of 30mL instead of 36mL.  Since I don’t expect all my customers to own graduated cylinders many will  have to use the cap for measuring, and the cap holds 10mL .  For this reason I rounded the serving size off to 30mL.

19 Responses so far

Patrick, this is Shawn Wells. Question, MCT’s have always been a tool for ketogenic/ketotic diets. I’ve personally done CKDs for years on and off. MCTs push me in to ketosis fairly easily, especially if I am fasted more than 3-4 hours. And there’s been data, I can’t recall where now, that showed a greater carbohydrate allowance to stay in ketosis when using MCTs…probably related to epileptic therapeutic diets.
So, my question is do you theorize there could be some synergy here with your keto-force product (ketone esters) and MCTs? Maybe allowing the dose to be lowered some or to have the effect last longer?

What is the strategy with the Ketone Esters that you see? I’d love to see you lay out a day with working out and meals and the best strategy. I know you said about 60 minutes pre-workout with peaking blood levels, but when else? Multiple times a day? Would some people see effects that aren’t on a true ketogenic diet, but going in to 3-4 hour CKDs essentially when the product is used? Or is it best used for those that employ a TKD/CKD?

MCTs are metabolized to ketones even in the presence of dietary carbohydrates. MCTs cannot raise ketones as high as the BHB salts however because GI tolerance prevents them from being ingested in very large amounts. Dr. Dagostino and I have a patent application for the combination of ketone salts with MCTs and the patent app is currenly owned by University of South Florida. BHB salts combined with MCTs lead to very impressive rises in blood ketone levels yes. Ketone esters are being developed more for the drug market. BHB salts for the supplement market. We are trying to figure out how to best utilize them, right now I am suggesting for preworkout

Patrick, I listed to you nad Dr. Dagostino this morning on the Superhuman Radio Podcast and found this product very interesting and something I definitely want to try when it comes back in stock.

One thing I noticed from this article is your test subject only raised his BHB levels to around 1 mmol/L even though he was already keto adapted. From what I’ve read, folks like Volek, et al, suggest that a level of at least 1 but probably in the range of 2-3 mmol/L is needed to optimize nutritional ketosis.

I have a very difficult time maintaining my ketone levels at anything over about 1.5 (using a blood test) even when I restrict protein to account for gluconeogenesis. Would KetoForce be a tool I could use to raise those levels? And if I’m doing something like Jaminet’s diet and adding starches, could I see the best of both worlds by having ketones while still eating carbs? I know Peter Attia recently wrote an article on ketones and carbs so I might have to go back and read that but I’d be interested in your opinion.

I currently do an IF and restrict my eating to about 8 hours/day but often struggle in the late morning. So I’m definitely looking forward to trying KetoForce and seeing how it helps me adapt to my fasted morning routine.

Thanks for all the great info on here and on the podcast.

Karl, the blood data there was not on the keto adapted individual. that is the average of normal people who started out not in ketosis.

The keto adapadted individual (who happened to be peter attia) did his first ride at bhb level of 0.7mmol, and then after ingesting the ketoforce his bhb level was 2.6mmol

the ketoforce will raise your ketone levels whether you eat carbs or not

Hi Patrick,

I just received your KetoForce product and tried it just before my swim today. My conclusion: KetoForce makes breathing “optional”, lol.

What I mean is that usually at a given level of effort, I breathe every three strokes, today I was taking 5 strokes before taking a breath.

I’ve been on a Vegan Ketogenic Diet (on and off) for a couple of months now. My ketones are high and glucose low. My plan is to race Ironman on a Vegan Ketogenic Diet. Ironman is next week.

I’d like to use your KF product during the race together with the SuperStarch. However, it says that KF has to be refrigerated.

What do you think would happen to it if it was left in the heat and the sun for say 12 hours during the Ironman? Would it be safe to consume.

Also, how much would somebody like me need to consume and how often (120 lb female burning 300 calories during swim, 400 calories during bike and 550 calories during run)?

Thank you in advance for your patience with my very long comment and questions. :-)

Andrea

Hello Andrea

KetoForce has a pH high enough that it is pretty stable at room temperature for a while. Once it is mixed with something that reduces the pH it will not be as stable though. It wont be any less stable than a drink with starch and I dont see any problems left in the sun for 12 hours

I dont know how much to recommend for you to consume however you should know that each serving contains approximately 60 calories (as BHB). I havent done research into optimum consumption for competitive athletes. Any feedback you can supply would be great

Good Luck

Thanks for your reply Patrick.

I know I’m in completely unchartered territory with this whole experience. I’ve never heard of anybody doing Ironman on a Vegan Ketogenic Diet, or even a meat based KD, so it’ll be interesting.

I’ve done Ironmans and ultramarathons on the regular Vegan diet successfully but never on the Vegan Ketogenic Diet.

Very useful to know that each serving contains 60 calories! Thank you. I’ll just have to balance out the sodium with the need for calories since that’s 1,600 mg of sodium per 60 calories.

Based on the chart you provided in the article above, I’m planning on taking a serving every 2.5-3 hours – that should balance out the sodium and hopefully keep the ketones at optimal levels.

I’m thinking of taking a serving of KetoForce and ketone esters together during Ironman.

Have you ever thought of creating a formula for endurance athletes that combine ketone salts with ketone esters?

I’ll definitely let you know how it works during the race.

After the race I’m going to a VO2 lab to test my RQ after taking ketones. I’m particularly curious if the percentage of fat (ketones) I’m burning in the anaerobic zone could go down to less than 50% (people who are not in ketosis burn 100% carb in the anaerobic zone).

I’m excited to test all this out!!

Thanks again!!

Andrea

I mean, I know Greenfield attempted to do Ironman on a meat based KD but didn’t make it all the way through – he switched to carbs half way through… I’ll be pumped if I can get through it on a Vegan KD.:-)

I love the idea for this product, but each serving contains 1600 mg of sodium?! That’s a huge amount of sodium, and all in a single dose. If I wanted to take your product three times a day, I would be faced with nearly five grams of sodium per day, in addition to whatever is in the diet.

Would this product only be useful in combination with heavy exercise? Basically, there appears to be a serious limit on how much you can use because of the implications of potential sodium overdose?

There are many potential uses of this product but primarily we are recommending it for pre workout. Which would be a once a day dosing on average. Unless you are on a sodium restricted diet I dont think the sodium level is a big issue for once a day use

If you take a lot of sodium in a single dose like this, how much of it ends up being urinated out?

On a low carb diet, I tried Volek and Phinney’s suggestion to take five grams of sodium per day (spread out over many small doses) and that caused an osmotic effect in my gut and loose stool. Not sure what a single large dose would do.

I have been using KF for about a week now. I am an avid cyclist and have been on a ketogenic in diet for 4 months. My rides have been nothing short of amazing this last week. Breathing is notably different. My question is, when taking KF before my rides am I still burning fat, or am I just using the ketones from KF for my energy?

I am not entirely sure. the ketones may to some extent supercede your bodyfat being used for fuel

Hi Patrick!

I am a doctor with some cancer, epileptic, and Alzheimer’s under my care.

May I know if ketone bodies are heat-stable? Like, can you add them to hot liquids, like the Bulletproof coffee of Dave Asprey? I am trying to minimize the dizziness during ketogenic induction. You have suggested orange juice to manage the high pH but and I have been using your product with hot liquids without knowing if the BHBA is degraded by heat.

Be well!

Dr. Ted

Doc Ted

They are plenty heat stable. bulletproof coffee will not degrade them

Thank you, Patrick!

Just a food for thought. Since the body is cascade upon cascade of feedback loops, do you think providing an exogenous feedback “signal” like ketone bodies will trick the body into a mimicked fasting state and allow regular people (read: non-athletes or non-ketoadapted individuals) to reap the health benefits without fasting? There are studies on oxaloacetate on this and I wonder if raising ketone bodies would do the same. Thank you again and be well!

Dr. Ted

Dr. Dagostino said

“It’s possible. Our collaborators at Yale plan to do longevity studies.

We just published a precursor to this study in Nature Medicine on BHB reducing inflammation “

Hi Patrick,
I was just wondering what you think of the upcoming Delta-G drink developed at Oxford University over a 20 year period!!
Why did it take so long for them to hit the market?
Why are they using ketone esters?
Thanks!

Hi Patrick

I’m a member of the Dogecoin community attempting to create a charity that could raise funds for connecting people suffering from dementia to your product. I have been following Mary Newports research on MCTs and Ketones for some time now curious if a product would ever come out with just the ketone itself and thanks to you it did.

Dogecoin is a cryptocurrency that is extremely popular and community driven. We have raised funds for several different causes. We raised $33k to provide water to those in need, We raised $25k to send the Jamaican bobsled team to the winter olympics and finally $55k to sponsor underdog Josh Wise #98 nascar in Talladega.

So the question is being that you made this product you would know better than anyone how our charity could best be used. How can we help connect those suffering from dementia to Keto Force?

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